Transcript: Episode 12 with Cassondra Spring, Liv Cycling Global Brand Manager
This is the transcript to Episode 12 of the Spindrift Podcast with Cassondra Spring, Global Brand Manager for Liv Cycling. You can listen to the episode via the embedded player, and it’s available on all major podcasting platforms.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
liv, cycling, women, bike, femmes, events, love, racing, tour de france, experience, working, teams, world, live, cyclocross, support, year, athletes, brand, riding
SPEAKERS
Aoife Glass, Cassondra Spring
Aoife Glass 00:07
Welcome to the Spindrift Podcast where we delve into the spirit of cycling hearing personal stories and experiences discussing important issues and discovering adventure and inspiration. This episode I'm joined by Cassondra spring Global Brand Manager for Liv Cycling one of the biggest bike brands in the world. We talk about where her passion for bikes comes from what a global marketing manager actually does, and the importance of representation, inclusion and diversity in cycling. And on the eve of the Tour de France femme, we talk about the current state of play in women's cycling, and her vision for the future. If you enjoy this episode, please don't forget to leave a little comment or ranking as it really helps people discover the podcast. And in the meantime, enjoy. Joining me now, from live from the US is Cassondra spring Global Brand Manager for live cycling. Cassondra, thank you so much for joining me for a chat today.
Cassondra Spring 01:07
Oh, thank you. If I'm really excited to be with you.
Aoife Glass 01:11
I hope it's not it's not too early in the morning for you over there at the moment.
Cassondra Spring 01:15
It's perfectly reasonable on a Saturday, it's nearly 8am.
Aoife Glass 01:20
Dedication. I appreciate... I appreciate you taking the time to on your Saturday morning to talk to me on Spindrift today. And so congratulations are in order because we just said you're global brand manager Liv Cycling. And that's that's a new role, though you've been working for Liv for a long while now. But can you tell us like what... first of all, congratulations... And secondly, what what does a global brand manager do? What does that mean?
Cassondra Spring 01:45
Right? Um, yeah, so Well, generally leading and managing global brand initiatives and, you know, Liv's business building capacity. I of course work with a team of dynamic leaders, we're focused on sports marketing, product and gear marketing, as well as content and influencer marketing. And especially right now within Liv, really looking at supporting digital transformation initiatives, big things are afoot in terms of how that infrastructure is. And then beyond that, I mean, we're kind of in collaboration, but you know, my role is to really lead, manage and execute creative campaigns. And with the idea of optimising for their localization, because we do have sales companies around the world. Yeah. And so that's a really key thing. It's, it's participating in, you know, regional business focus meetings, and with those marketing teams, and you know, Liv brand focus teams to kind of, you know, be successful and be strategically smart and evolve our tactics in a dynamic landscape. We know that, but I think the world is changing, and so in flux, and so it's really kind of operating in a smart way to kind of meet the moments. So there's never a dull moment, in this role. But you know, t ruly, it's year-round, is there's always something, always many things that are happening. And the greatest thing is that I got, I get to kind of have exposure to a lot. And I get to be a listener and a learner every day, which I love.
Aoife Glass 03:44
I mean, as you said, it's a hugely varied role. So Liv Cycling is, you know, a huge global brand known for producing women's specific bikes and gear, but goes much beyond that. And your role encompasses all of that. So like, you know, I guess our paths would have crossed because in my work as a bike journalist, I'd have been invited to press camps or receive marketing material, when there's a new bike coming out. And so that's kind of produced globally, but like, you know, maybe tweets or for for local, you know, sort of the UK market, for example, but then, as you said, like you do sports marketing, which if I understand correctly, that sort of like working with athletes, so you've got athletes racing, in, you know, discipline, all sorts of disciplines like triathlon, road cycling, mountain biking, enduro, cross country and, and sort of ambassadors around the world influences around the world. I mean, that's a big. I mean, would you say it's kind of like how you're sort of informing, yeah, how how Liv is seen and perceived and shares what it does.
Cassondra Spring 04:51
Yeah, I think that's a Yeah, that's a generally I am, you know, a brand steward and really responsible for how it is showing up in the world? Yeah. And of course, you know, I always want to give a lot of credit and attention to the women that I work with, especially because you know, it's through their leadership that we accomplish a lot. But at the end of the day, I am accountable. It does. It's exciting and big. And I'm I really, truly am amazed. I mean, we are a team that always aims to play big, but we are smaller than you would imagine, right?
Aoife Glass 05:33
Just like Liv Cycling, you're like, is a huge brand is bikes around the place, there must be like 1000s and 1000s of people working on live. Is that right?
Cassondra Spring 05:44
No, like dozens and dozens. Yeah, I mean, that's the amazing thing. You know, and I, you reference the fact that we do have two women's World Tour teams. We have a factory racing, you know, UCI World Cup cross country mountain bike team, we have a racing collective, which is our syndicate of privateer professional athletes, who are competing across multiple disciplines. That's... those are our teams. And we have amazing partnerships with the Black Foxes, and also they're doing an amazing thing with the Abundance Project. And then we're also longtime partners with Ladies All Ride. And and then, you know, so at the global level, are these, you know, overarching sports marketing and Ambassador programmes, but then we work with this strong network of, as, you know, regionally managed Ambassador programmes and sports marketing initiatives. So it's great. It's great. It's a lot.
Aoife Glass 06:44
Yeah, all the way from like, the top at the highest level of elite professional sport, through to the grassroots level where you're, you've kind of got like, people making a difference right on the ground with within their communities, one on one, or, you know, sort of in smaller groups kind of having that direct input. So the full gamut of cycling within one within one row.
Cassondra Spring 07:07
I really love it. I love variety. Yeah. And I love you know, cycling, I mean, truly bikes and bike culture, just like a such a passion point for mine. So I Yeah, it's dynamic and keeps me on my toes. I also am one of those people that, uh, you know, I have a great interest in stretching and growing all the time. And so always have opportunity for that as well.
Aoife Glass 07:32
Let's take it back. You've mentioned that bikes and bike culture have always been something that you're interested in. Right, right from when you were little? Were you into bikes as a kid?
Cassondra Spring 07:40
Oh, yes, from a young age, I was riding bikes, for fun round my neighbourhood. And then I have this kind of two distinct picture images. One was me just kind of racing up and down the street with neighbourhood kids, you know, like, just for funsies. And then my dad had this 10 speed and it had at one point at a much younger sibling, and there was a baby seat on the back. And you know, I was babysitting and putting my little brother in and trying to ride my around aproximately age 12. Yeah, so there were those just, you know, the bikes for fun and for play and for pleasure. And then when I went to university in Bellingham, Washington, I bought my first mountain bike and I used it primarily as a commuter bike before discovering how much fun the trails were and are and so that was a great kind of, for me to say, like, oh, wow, okay, this is another level of fun. But then I really fell in love with biking when I discovered a riding community, right and yeah, I was living in Steamboat Springs Colorado following graduation, and participated in their pound challenge mountain bike race series. I just fell in love with the camaraderie and the competition. Just like that combination was really fun. And then I lived in Steamboat only for a short year before moving to Bend Oregon and and in Bend I found more women to ride with which was huge and eventually more disciplines to try. And so I got in... I definitely tasted just kind of road racing and discovered that it was not for me, and and then also cyclocross, which I love to say it looks hard, but it's also harder than it looks.
Aoife Glass 09:41
I mean, it looks really hard.
Cassondra Spring 09:45
But my my relationship to cycling involves yet again, when Bend hosted the cyclocross nationals in 2009 and 2010. And inspired by this, the fans, the racers just the culture in general, I share a vision for a citywide multimedia arts events with Doug Lopaka, who was then CEO for Visit Bend. And I found amazing support and partnership with them as a tourism bureau. And through this experience, I really fell in love with, you know, like just those possibilities that happen at the intersection of cycling and culture. And then, you know, for me, like, what it means is, it's been like this big part of my life, not only because I spent a lot of time working and playing bikes, but just, you know, kind of what they brought me in terms of connecting me with some of the most fascinating people - you included!
Aoife Glass 10:39
Oh, thanks! But it's true, I mean, like, I think that's one of the things that whenever I speak to anyone who's really into cycling, one of the things that pretty much everyone says is, it's the community and the people that you can meet through it, there's this sort of pure passion for what they do, and, and a sort of real interest in sharing it as well, like, you know, it feels a lot like people have discovered something kind of magical. And rather than wanting to keep it to themselves, they want as many people as possible to have this experience to share that joy, that sense of achievement that you can get the sense of freedom you can get from from cycling, would you say that that sort of the main thing that you get from it? Or what is it that about cycling, that, that makes you made you fall in love with it?
Cassondra Spring 11:19
I mean, I think that, yeah, there's a generosity of spirit in general. And I love that, if there is something about the community aspect, and I'm celebrating, you know, just those people that have where I felt like a sense of belonging, and so yeah, I mean, aside from the, the feeling that you get, when you're riding a bike, and especially, you know, outdoors, of course, you know, I'll do the indoor time as well. But when there's just nothing comparable to me of that feeling of freedom, and, and being able to share that and also kind of see it in others and within others. Is this just like, yeah, it's it's the best. And there is this deep gratitude that comes from acknowledging all the different I mean, this happens everywhere. But the Yeah, the the people that are like, okay, one small have to like get bringing somebody else out on a ride, but the difference that can make Yeah, and so I'm also in a position where I get to kind of observe that and be a part of it. And that is just yeah, that kind of just keeps me I don't know, energised and excited about the future.
Aoife Glass 12:31
Tell me a bit more about the festival then because, you know, I'm based in the Tweed Valley, and we're gearing up for the World Championships. And obviously, as well as sort of elite level racing, there's going to be there's a huge plans afoot for all these peripheral events to get the whole community involved and engaged. And I guess the idea is that like you even if you're not necessarily into like elite racing, or you don't know the names of all the athletes, it shouldn't matter, because there should be some other way that you can engage and experience and connect with what's going on here. So how did you go about doing that?
Cassondra Spring 13:01
Yeah. Oh, my gosh, how fun. Okay, so we, so cross culture was the events name. And in its first year, we had things you know, like thinking about all ages, so even for youth like painting cowbells, right, so then they can go in and like, yeah, and then ring those bells and really have like, touch the culture in that way. There was spoken word events, that centred on you know, bike stories and stories of, you know, riding life. And there was a bike art show where we partnered with retailers, and had, you know, bicycle themed art that was in all of these spaces. So anyone that was visiting town would go into those local businesses, right and see the art and meet the artist. And that was really impactful for me, just you could kind of see the that connection, you know, you get into like, just the economic impact. So that was pretty powerful. And then we also hosted art crane, and have you ever heard a cube been to one of those events?
Aoife Glass 14:10
No, I've, I've heard I've heard about it, and I've like sort of followed stories around it, but I've never been, I'd love to.
Cassondra Spring 14:17
Yeah, so that was really born... Charles Ville is the founder of Art Crank and he's based in Minneapolis, Minnesota in the US but this is a big events kind of all over the place in more urban areas, you know, like big city, big cities, but I was such a fan and basically like pursued and was like you have to come to the national. I mean, at the time Bend's population was probably around 75,000 people so it's not like a huge base. But we I think he also believed in you know, the cyclocross culture and in the kind of creative community that you know, especially at that time, and so that was another element of it in its second year, we had more of a themed event because it was timed around the Day of the Dead. So that was also just Yeah, kind of bringing in different community organisations to think about, you know, different intersections. So I yeah, for me, it was it's what you're describing where like there, is there a hook for anybody, no matter their age, interest, right to get them and bring them closer and, and ultimately to, you know, bring them out to watch athletes because it is infectious. You get out there and you're like, oh, my gosh, like, yeah, it's just so powerful.
Aoife Glass 15:39
How would you then sort of get the next step from like, someone who's had that that initial spark of like, Oh, that looks interesting to I'm going to try riding because, you know, one of the great things about cycling is it obviously there is a leak racing, but it's so many things, it can be so many things. It can be more or less, whatever you want it to be, how do you sort of move into that phase?
Cassondra Spring 16:01
You know, I think that I mean, that happens on a personal level. And I think it's really interesting how some people take inspiration from, you know, kind of, I mean, if we sent her still on cyclocross, obviously, this can be across different disciplines, but you get to see people that aren't that different from you, you know, writing and this is actually why, you know, I think also representation is important. So, also, I think use, there is something really powerful and about, you know, like, how do you just share imagination about, okay, what is what is biking? And what is cycling, and what is getting out in your bikes. And I think it's funny, because in some instances, you know, it's just like, Okay, go into a race, and then like, dust off the bikes for a ride and then riding together, and then you know, just like it can, it can just stay with that. And that's perfect, and fine and fun. And for some people, there's just something that catches fire. And, you know, it's just, I think the other thing that we think about it Liv is like, how can there be resources for those that are starting from that beat, you know, from those early phases of writing and like, offer, you know, if you're wanting to learn, here's somebody that you or a group that you can learn with, and or here's some online, you know, resources to read, or to watch to learn how learn basic skills or learn the things maybe you don't want to ask. So, but it is, I think it's so personal. And I do love hearing stories of, you know, what inspired people to get into writing, I think that it's always it's, it's fascinating, I think that, you know, there's the door, you know, a dash of like, you have to see it to be it. It holds true, right. Like, it really does hold true. And so, that is, again, you know, when we think about everything that's coming up in both, you know, Tour de France Femmes and also at the World Championships, it's like, I just think, oh my gosh, there's so much, there's so much potential there, because how many people will see something and just feel, you know, take inspiration from it, and think I'm gonna give that a go.
Aoife Glass 18:16
Let's chat a little bit more about some of the high level racing that's coming up, because there's some amazing high level racing coming up and Liv's involvement in that because brands play a huge part in ensuring that women's cycling events women's cycling racing, happens in his support and has given opportunities and covered and I mean, the Tour de France Femmes has got to be one of the biggest success stories in recent times: the you know, the fight to bring it back, 2022 being its you know - inaugural isn't quite the right word, because there was a women's Tour de France in the past - but like its triumphant return, and just how successful that was, you were you were there with Liv, and Liv supported the first Tour de France Femmes?
Cassondra Spring 18:17
Yes.
Aoife Glass 18:18
What was that? Like? I mean, that must have been an incredible experience.
Cassondra Spring 18:29
It was an incredible experience. It was also I think, I should have known this but it was the moving circus. And, and I had we had the honour of Liv founder and visionary Bonnie Tu that was there for the first four stages and could participate in the programme. But truly, you know, it was an incredible you know, just felt like incredible success to be there. I had high hopes truly for that events and they were released the past there was a strong infrastructure commitment from the ASO, I mean, from the you know, from depart in Paris to the fan zones with each stage and the caravan that precedes the stage. The scale was really impressive, but you know, all of that was met by fans, and really in in tremendous numbers signing the course. And you know, I think that for me, the one of the impressions that just has remained like hearing the banging of the barricades at the finish line. And oh my gosh, and even I have I like, I get goosebumps when I when I revisit like being on the final stage stage eight and at the finish and we know of course, you know, we on on me we know, you know she's well positioned but you're still you're looking at the the jumbotron and we see how far the writers are out, and then you hear the helicopter above. And then you hear, you know, just being the barricades and people yelling, and you're like, oh my gosh, this is it like, and just for those women and they incredible, you know, like every the efforts, and I guess, you know, just display of athleticism, all of it. It was just profoundly exciting and wonderful. And you know, we now know that the broadcast viewership numbers soared throughout the stages. Yeah. And you know, for us, it really confirmed that we believe that there's a global appetite for women's cycling.
Aoife Glass 20:58
So I'm looking at some of the stats that I've got here now that Zwift who are one of the sponsors of the event have released because obviously, we've got... not long now till the 2023 event. So they were saying 23.2 million cumulative live audience for the 2022 Tour de France Femmes, 2.9 million average live audience watches per stage. And then they're saying that sort of like 115 million overall viewers for women's cycling, so making it the fourth most followed women's sports in the world, which is huge. And then 73% of fans who watched it were interested in participating or racing afterwards, compared to sort of 44% of people who use of don't watch sports. So, I mean, that means a huge audience like, and it's been the case for so long that supporters of women's cycling have said, 'No, you know, if you if you give coverage to it, people will watch it, they will watch it' and now the proof is in the pudding like it was put out there, it was broadcast live and and people watched it and people loved it. And it inspired people. There's no argument anymore for that, surely,
Cassondra Spring 22:08
No, I know. And I love the investment in that and then cycling for it by Zwift. And as well as their investment in the Tour de France Femmes. There's just I mean, we know and I in this, I expect even more participation, ya know, along the courses around the world this year. And I'm excited for that.
Aoife Glass 22:28
So can you tell us I mean, so you're, you're going you're heading over to France next week? It's all kicking off the weekend off to if I've got that correct, obviously, depending on when I released this, it might it might be happening right now. So listeners bear with me. What, what happens with you in your role at the Tour de France Femmes? So you know, I mean, obviously, there's a huge amount of work that's gone in the run up to this. So this is kind of like the rollout, what goes into putting something like that together from the perspective of your role and the brand live cycling.
Cassondra Spring 23:00
Oh, my gosh, that's right. So many things. However, you know, this year, so there is a really strong brand activation element that's on the ground, right? Like we want to ensure that Liv is visible as an events, partner and White Jerseys sponsor. I mean, clearly, we have a stage presentation every day with the white jersey and we have, you know, banners and all sorts of, you know, visible branding along the course. And in the cars and in the Moto, all of those things are wonderful. We also want to really, you know, energise the fans. And so we are this year, you know, we have a team of French ambassadors that are going to be giving out swag there'll be in the messaging is More Femmes On Bikes, we have bucket hats, and we have flags. And so just, you know, kind of looking to distribute those. We do have a product line, the Blanc Collection that's really inspired by the Tour de France Femmes, and we have a lot of content. We're doing something unique and experimental this year. We're working with Katie Burrell, and I don't know if you're familiar, she's a Canadian comedian, essentially. In her in her, it was really poking fun at bro culture and in the snowsport space, and also we've had the opportunity to work together in the past and so Katie is coming along along with her producer and she's going to be talking about you know why being a fan matters, but with a very comedic approach.
Aoife Glass 24:50
I LOVE this already, I will be watching.
Cassondra Spring 24:52
It's gonna be some fun and the intent behind it really is to unlock those North American audiences as well. I think if you live in Western European countries, you understand the Tour and its heritage and it's just, you know, it's like so visible. And I think in the US, we have, like, you know, the, I guess, name recognition of Tour de France Femmes, but getting people really like, 'Okay, what's going on here', you know, like somewhat, you know, demystifying some of the elements of the Tour is something that we want to do. And so beyond that kind of back to our efforts with with all of the content pieces, we are working, you know, we have two teams Jayco Alula is one of the teams and we also have Liv Racing Teqfind. So we'll be working together in various ways to continue to tell stories in and gather assets, etc. And, yeah, and anything else that comes up, because there's always the unexpected and so just being ready for that as well. So it's, and it's a really fun. That's the intense this year, I think last year being the first year. Yeah, I just had, I just remember having like very big eyes. Like what's coming next?
Aoife Glass 26:11
Yeah. You know, how it rolls now. So now you're like, uh, huh, what can we do with it this year?
Cassondra Spring 26:18
On that another thing that's really been happening in the build up, but now, you know, it's kind of moved into the hands of the community into retailers is giving sharing kind of resources and guidelines for hosting watch parties?
Aoife Glass 26:33
Oh, I love that!
Cassondra Spring 26:34
And I'm so excited, because we already have, you know, more than 50 being planned around the world. I know, in Japan, they're having a watch party in Germany, they're happening in Canada in the US, the US, I think they're upwards of I mean, I don't know, there's more than 30 being counted the US. And so again, that's something where it's like, we understand the importance of, of, as Zwift would say, Watching The Femmes, right, we understand that metric. And it's important. And so for us to support that as well. And to really kind of and you know, you've had that experience, I'm sure. I know, I have with World Cups with other events to where you're just gathering together with people and sharing in that experience of watching. Whether it's a stage, whether it's a match, it is something that I don't know, it's that collective effervescence that is so joyful for me.
Aoife Glass 27:28
Yeah. So, you know, obviously, being at an event is great, but not everyone can be an event. But you know, if it's streamed live, you can all be in a room with other fans and kind of, you know, feed off that energy and sort of experience it. I love a watch party. And I think the other thing that's really interesting that you're saying as well about demystifying it, because I remember not that long ago, one of my housemates when I was in my 20s, which is - let's not say how long ago that was now - but she was really into the Tour de France. And I was like I, you know, I didn't really get it. I was like, Oh, it's just a load of people racing bikes. And it wasn't until later on and was into cycling and racing generally, when I realised, no, no, no, it's not like you know, all these people individually racing for a win. There's there's a team and there are strategies and there are stories and there's roles and they're working together. And when you start hearing and, I think this is one of the things that I've always loved about cycling and always been really happy that's happening more, is when you know the the people involved in the races and their stories and their motivations and their characters and why they're doing it and why they love it. Oh, God, then you have that emotional engagement. So then when you're watching something like the Tour de France Femmes, oh, God, it's just so much more powerful. And I get really emotional. I'm not gonna lie. I have cried at bike races.
Cassondra Spring 28:45
For sure. Yeah, same. I know it is. There's something that is deep about it. And beautiful. And Yeah, same. I felt like a lot of tears will flow. You know, even just, for me, it's like, there's a lot of, as you said, just the women that are racing that are so inspiring and from across the teams. Yeah. And of course I am I'm close with the ones on the Liv teams and you know, as with love so much content coming through, I'm still like, I'll watch seeing some things over and over because it just like that feeling. And yeah, there's a lot of investments just in their experience in the end, you know, in the the triumphs and yeah, and also the setbacks. Yeah, I think there's a lot that we can take from that.
Aoife Glass 29:39
So with with a brand like Liv because obviously, it's more than just... obviously selling bikes is the business, but it's more than just selling bikes, because if it was just selling bikes, you'd just sell bikes. There's more to it than that, which involves sort of investment in not just in athletes, but in also sharing athletes stories and getting that across to people who might find them interesting and inspirational. And as you said, providing the additional advice, because, you know, for a lot of people, inspiration is one starting point or buying a bike for utilitarian purpose might be another, but then you deal with it like, How do I look after it? Who do I ride with? Where do I ride on? Where do you even find that information? Because a lot of women are quite disengaged with a lot of traditional cycling media outlets, because they've always been very male dominated. And you know, there's lots of great guys working there. I've worked with many of them. You know, if that's not where women are going, then how do you ensure that women get that information that will make their you know, their experience of cycling so much more fun and enjoyable and pleasurable and confidence boosting? I mean, is that something that live work on as well like, and why?
Cassondra Spring 30:50
Wow, yeah, big question. Yeah, the answer is yes. And just to kind of touch back Liv was founded in 2008, by Bonnie Tu, and she was 57 at the time, and she was a Giant executive. At the time, she was chief financial officer, and she couldn't find, you know, the appropriate bike models and equipment that suited her needs. And so I love that, you know, at 57, coming into cycling, and having that perspective, and really kind of being a convert towards, and, you know, being a tireless advocate for inclusivity, within the bike industry. And, you know, today, the brand, the Liv brand, you know, it continues to evolve and grow. And we get to put women first and everything we do, all of our resources are invested in supporting women and creating more opportunities in the sport of cycling. And so that is, I don't know, I mean, I think that's really, it's an enviable position to be in to be at Liv as passionate riders, you know, like, okay, women are first thought. So, you know, and, you know, at the same time, I will say we have, we hear the challenges of industry norms and standards, you know, like, why, why do we need this or that, and I honestly, I take a lot of inspiration from Bonnie, who was like, why not? Why don't we need, you know, we've always thought about it from that perspective, why not from this? And so yeah, we are always looking for ways to listen to amplify, to elevate, celebrate women, you know, throughout their cycling journey. And as riders, it's helpful, we have, you know, one of the girls on the global marketing team, she came into cycling during the pandemic. And she really brings this kind of fresh approach, you know, like, she fell in love with gravel riding. And so, you know, I just, it's been really interesting to have somebody that's like, Yeah, but why, why do it this way? And even as you know, I've been a rider for a long time. And I'm, I'm very lucky to be surrounded by a lot of women in my riding community, and to even just have that fresh-eyed look, you know, in different perspective of like, hey, this isn't why do we have to do it this way? You know, that's, yeah, it's fantastic. And I think also, you know, at Liv, we have, as I touched on before, the partnerships with our athletes and ambassadors, or ambassadors are all athletes too, but just, you know, kind of recognising how everything can kind of work together. I know that you and I have talked about it, as you know, before, as a storyteller, as a journalist, as somebody, you know, hosting a podcast, your role is also really significant, important into this bigger picture. But again, when we think about, you know, how about women and what they might need, and once we are coming from, we try and ask that question a lot, and are always looking for ways to respond, and new in different ways. I mean, we know like attention spans are really changed. We know that, you know, to think about over the course of time, use photographs, and then short form, you know, videos and longer storytelling, short form, you know, short form storytelling. So that's the other part that keeps it really dynamic.
Aoife Glass 34:15
One of the things that we found when way, way, way back when when I was on BikeRadar, when we did a women's bike of the year test, one of the things they found was that they had trouble with some of the brakes on the road bikes, because they the hoods are too big, and the reach was too far. And even if we dialled it back in, they were having trouble controlling it. And that meant that they felt less confident descending because they didn't have the control that they needed. I remember Bonnie Tu on one of the press camps that I lead on, asking us journalists, if we would consider putting our names behind a call for smaller brake levers. And we were like, hell yes. Because we want to make sure that women can have an equal experience or people with smaller hands can have, you know, an equal experience to the rest of us - just because you've got small hands, it shouldn't mean that you have a lesser experience on a bike.
Cassondra Spring 35:03
Absolutely, yeah, that's that I know, Bonnie was sharing that. And earlier this year, with with me personally, and then also at the Bicycle Leadership Conference in the US, she was really calling on other industry leaders like, just like if you could all think about what an inclusive writing community would look like for you for your brand, right? Like, what, how different would the world be? But yeah, I think we, when it comes to our products, we're definitely we're designing those, you know, bikes and gear that optimise fit and performance and fun, and, you know, women's data informs those prototypes. And also, you know, women's perspectives inform the process. And then also our bikes are tested and refined by, you know, elite athletes, that are all working with the with the Liv team. So it's so funny, because, you know, leave it to a marketer to talk about the importance of a bike and because really, I think bikes didn't like, having good equipment makes a big difference. And to your point, it's just like, just having, you know, I still believe like, the the the best bike is the bike that fits you best and the bike that you feel competent on. And so it is kind of, you know, looking for that first riding experience that can be positive. And then yeah, I think from Liv also like, Okay, how do we hook them through a community? How can we connect people? You know, like, that's the other thing I just I get fascinated, but like, how do we get that shared sense of purpose and belonging? And I do think in this world, I mean, there's so many people that are lonelier than we know, and more isolated than we know. And, you know, I think bikes are a fantastic vehicle for creating community.
Aoife Glass 37:01
On that note, you've touched on some of the groups that Liv supports and are involved in that sit at the more grassroots side of cycling. Can you tell me a bit more about some of those, and why Liv support them? Because I think that that's also very interesting that finding community, not just finding community, but then also increasing the diversity of who's riding, we're talking about Liv's a, you know, women's brand, women's cycling brand, so you know, that that's gender diversity, but that's only one part of the of the picture.
Cassondra Spring 37:29
Yeah, that's right, I really, I have to share with you that, you know, in along my journey, or within my journey at live, I've really been able to confront some blind spots of mine. And, you know, I will say Ayesha McGowan is, she's a phenomenal athlete, and also an advocate. And I remember sitting down with with Ayesha, and for copper, and we were talking about, I was really proud of that this is like back in 2018, or maybe 19, early 19. And I was like, no look at you know, all these women and all these stories and Ayesha was like 'you guys suck! Like, where are people of colour?' And you know, Ayesha is like, it's one of those things where she has some visibility. But truly, she is an unsung hero with so many ways, because at a Quick Brown Fox, you know, there are two distinctive programmes, they have the Black Foxes, which is an international collective of unapologetically black cyclists and outdoors people that are reclaiming narratives and roles in the outdoors, and really kind of inviting others in and, you know, actively going to events and for representation and visibility. And then they also, through A Quick Brown Fox have started the Abundance Project, I touched on that earlier, but that's really designed to create a pathway for women of colour to go from beginner to professional road cyclists by eliminating some of the barriers, right? If it's cost, if it's equipment, if it's just like, I need to save, I need a space to ask questions that I'm not finding elsewhere. And I was gonna use safe space that I also I'm really sensitive to... I love Brene Brown talks about we can't insure another person's safety, but we can create brave spaces, right. So that's what they're doing. And just the, the impact of these both programmes is it's hard to measure. And yet we know we can see the response in online spaces, we can, you know, see the responsive when they have an event and people are showing up or when they go to events. And if one more rider feels safe to be out there to get out there. I mean, that is really tremendous. Yeah. So yeah, that's one of the you know, and it's it's a programme that's supported at the global level, because we truly believe in the global impact of that.
Aoife Glass 39:54
I feel like cycling has a responsibility to sort of address the inequality within it, it's not good enough to say, 'oh, yeah, but there's no barriers'; just because 'you' don't face them just because 'you've' always... 'you've' never had an issue out there. That doesn't mean that other people don't, you know, face barriers to what they want to do, and or blocks to the opportunities they might have. I feel very strongly that if we do feel like cycling should be for everyone, we have responsibility to make it so, to do what we can to make it for everybody
Cassondra Spring 40:21
I agree. And I also think when that happens at all, you know, at all levels, this is why it's so interesting, because being I'm going to just go back to that example of the Bicycle Leadership Conference, which is put on by People for Bikes, a US advocacy organisation, but looking around the room, it's, you know, it's audiences more towards the C suite. And I have to say, it was like 75%, plus white, middle aged men. Yeah. And all the women that were there were like, were gravitating towards one another, like, hi, you know, I'm just like Cassondra. And there was one kind of events that was, you know, organised is the happy hour event, and where it was just, you know, storytelling and connecting with women. And I was like, This is what I want, I want just this. And not because I don't care about the, you know, the full spectrum of the issues, but I also, it's also because I think that there's still the sense of like, we're on the road, the pioneers, like we're still working towards, you know, having that seat at the table and trying to get other seats, you know, at that table that is still very actively happening in the bike industry. And one thing that I do believe is that when women enter into the room and have a seat at the table in the conversation, it changes the climate overall, and then there and then there's space for others, and you know, more and more and more differences. So I don't want to get too hung up on like, oh, it's women. But I do think that... I don't know, if it's... I just I think that's an interesting thing that that happens quite naturally. There's just whatever it is. So I am really in favour of seeing more spaces for that and for actively, you know, kind of having places to to convene, and to discuss the realities. I mean, I'm a pretty optimistic and positive person, but it can get tiresome.
Aoife Glass 42:21
Yeah, no, I would agree being being sort of the only or slash one of the few women in a room in a role in probably in any industry, but I mean, I guess most of my experiences in the in the bike media side of things. And you know, just to reiterate, I've worked with some fantastically supportive organisations, some great guys, but I have also experienced that kind of feeling of like I'm the only woman here, which is one of the reasons why... and they don't really happen so much anymore... but when you when you started getting women's specific bike launches, generally speaking - and I'd love to see more women at general bike launches, not just women's specific launches - you'd go on those, and it's the first time it really felt quite a lot of the women there that they'd been in a room with other female bike journalists. And it's like, Oh, my God, this is amazing. We can like have conversations about shared experiences and what it's like and like, 'what do you think of that bike' and all the rest of it. I mean, probably the same chats that a lot of guys are having, although I will say one of the Liv launches, did have karaoke. And when I told the guys back in the office about that they initially looked a little bit like 'karaoke - huh'. But I bet they would have been well up for that if they got that on their launches. So I think actually, they were jealous, because I think they should have more karaoke on both launches, just saying.
Cassondra Spring 43:40
Well, I always think of you as rock and roll, so. But I do you know, it is I have, again, it's one of those things where I've been so lucky to be at the centre of that, you know, for a Liv launch event where the intention is to it's not only it's to also advocate for, right, like we are advocating because we still, I mean, we want the stories from women's perspective, that's really important. And then yeah, what what happens when, you know, we get together in one space in one room, I add something, it's there, and it's powerful. And I just know it and since it and I think the connections that are forged, those experiences are also really impactful. Yeah, so that has been a true source of of joy in you know, throughout my career and journey and at Liv it's remarkable element, and I agree. I think also you know, at any bike launch that's where...nwomen belong where bikes are!
Aoife Glass 44:51
Absolutely! And hopefully we're moving in that direction. I really like I feel like things are changing. I hope it I hope it continues along that way. And like you said, like, so it's, you know, if we want change to happen, it's it's about providing opportunity, not just initially at that initial stage, but also supporting opportunities for pipelines for people to come in. And if they want to go into racing to provide opportunities there, or if they, you know, if they want to go into journalism, providing the opportunity to sort of write and get experience, you know, just giving, showing people what's out there, but also ensuring that there are the tools and opportunities to allow them to progress through it without having to fight and find their way every time. Going back to, to some of the pro racing just because I'm obviously a little bit biassed about this, but after the Tour de France Femmes, which is obviously going to be huge. We've also got the first unified cycling World Championships happening here in Scotland. I know so excited. We've got like events happening, we've got road racing and BMX in Glasgow, we've got the downhill at Fort William up in the highlands, and we've got the cross country and a marathon here in the Tweed Valley. So I'm I'm obviously super excited about that, because it's basically on my doorstep, I think they might actually be going past the end of my road. So I'm definitely gonna be cheering them on. What's Liv's involvement with that? I mean, that's, that's also going to be a big opportunity for, for sort of getting cycling out to more people, it's going to be on the BBC on national television here in the UK, for example.
Cassondra Spring 46:23
I love it. And I you know, as a sponsor of teams, definitely there are athletes are going to have a big presence. And because it's for championships, it is, you know, it's not necessarily as a team approach it that way. But we, I'm very excited that Elizabeth Walker, Liz, who I know, you know, and are well acquainted with, she'll be on the ground in Scotland, and she is very, very active, not only as a supporter for the Liv Factory Racing Team, and the Liv Racing Collective, she works together with the mechanics that are providing support, and is also really, you know, actively working towards having, you know, women in industry conversations and forums. As a brand, I think we are more kind of there to support the athlete, yes, but really enthused about the, you know, just the, the vision for this and how it all comes together. And I just think like, Whoa, it's just Scotland is the epicentre of excellence. It's gonna be, I mean, super special. And so I am excited. Again, it's one of those things where, like, what will ensue, and I just that kind of curiosity and, and great expectations for how everything lands there. And I just love that you are central in that in your role as well, in the Tweed Valley cross-country and marathon events.
Aoife Glass 48:02
Oh, I'm going to be talking to everyone. I'm going to try and see if I can get some more on-the-fly podcasts. I'll just be like shoving a microphone in everyone's face yelling 'tell me things! Tell me how excited you are! Just try and capture that buzz.
Cassondra Spring 48:07
Yeah, I would love to I would love to be on the ground there. And it's one of those wishes, you know, to be in more than one place at one time. And but yeah, I'm really looking forward to spectating and cheering on from the sidelines on this one.
Aoife Glass 48:32
I think we'd just have to clone yo, like someone that you can send to one thing, one to the other events. And I'd have to clone you several times, though. Let's just finish up them with like the state of women's cycling. How have things changed up to now? And where do you see things...Or where would you like to see things going in the future?
Cassondra Spring 48:55
I'm really I am energised by the growing momentum of women's cycling. I do think it is... I say this, and I may have been shared, said this shared this with you when we last spoke together, I think a few months ago, but I just feel like we're on the precipice. It just feels so big and massive. And I don't think that we have really, you know, crested the wave to mix metaphors. But at the same time, you know, we see the concerns we saw, you know, the cancellation of the Women's Tour, we understand the Giro Donne was also, you know, under threat, we understand that, you know, I mean contract expectations have rightfully grown. And also sometimes they're under resourced teams. So I think there's some restructuring that's underway, which is, you know, necessary. And then also, you know, we hear the naysayers who I think falsely believe that there's too little to go around somehow, right. But I'm super inspired by not only just by kind of the growth of the sport and the growth of I'm hearing a lot of conversations around developments, and even, you know, your acknowledgement of like, how can there be places for women to develop their skills as journalists? And you know, certainly, you know, in the business, I believe in mentoring programmes strongly and participate in them, how can we be mentors, and, and then if we look, even across women's sports, this is where I'm also getting a lot of inspiration. One thing I want to share is, you know, from a running more than running perspective, but Lauren Fleshman, if you haven't read Good For a Girl, it's a memoir, that centres on her experience as a collegiate athlete at Stanford University. And one thing that came up was, you know, all too well, or all too often, well-intentioned coaches are trying to duplicate their knowledge from working with men, right? And even Dr. Stacey Simms to, you know, her, she's like, 'Women are Not Small Men', she wrote that. And so I do think that like, we need to reimagine women's cycling and women's sports, right? Like, we're not cookie cutters. And so there's something that is, so the potential is so big, how might we better play to the existing strengths of something that's totally different than what exists right now? And what would the future look like if there was something that was really distinct and unique for women? And how is what's happening right now shaping that? Yeah. And that's that, you know, when I think about what I want to see in the future, I want to just see women's sports kind of be their own thing. And women's cycling to be like a standalone, it is so exciting. There's so many, you know, great, amazing athletes across disciplines. And it is like, truly, you know, like, astounding, I want to have that celebrated and acknowledged and just to see that kind of grow in its own direction. Yeah,
Aoife Glass 52:04
That is a powerful note to end on. Because that's such a strong inspiring vision for the future of women's cycling. And you know, hopefully women's sports as well. And I love that idea, that initiative, we can take more inspiration across other sports, see what's working and, and maybe sort of learn from that as well. Don't just look at it in isolation. And Cassondra, thank you so much for dialling in on your Saturday morning all the way from the US for chat today. If people want to keep up to date with what you're up to what's the best way of doing that?
Cassondra Spring 52:31
I am very accessible online. And so I'm sharing a lot of professional news on LinkedIn. I share photos and memes, and things I'm excited about on Instagram. I recently joined Threads. And Cassondra is my username in those spaces, and Cassondra Spring on LinkedIn. And I definitely welcome connection. Thank you so much for this time today, Aoife, it's a joy to connect with you each and every time and I still appreciate what you're doing in the world of cycling in the world in general.
Aoife Glass 53:05
It's always a pleasure to talk to you and I hope that you enjoy the rest of your Saturday.
Cassondra Spring 53:09
Thank you so much.
Aoife Glass 53:15
Thanks for listening to the spindrift Podcast. I'm Aoife, and I've been your host today. I hope you enjoyed this episode, and if you did, and would like to support the Spindrift Podcast it's really simple. Please just leave a review or rating or share this episode on your social media channels as it really helps people discover the podcast. If you want to follow Cassondra, I'll pop the links up on the Spindrift Podcast website. And you can also follow us on Instagram at Spindrift_Podcast. I'm also going to be at the cycling World Championships Marathon and cross country racing in the Tweed Valley in August. So if you're around, come and say hi!